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jussSAYIN

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Curious after seeing mostly complaints in the thread, what era of wrestling do y’all prefer? And what about current brands?

Genuinely curious, because if I know what you prefer it’s easier to understand critiques.
 

HollywoodLeo

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Curious after seeing mostly complaints in the thread, what era of wrestling do y’all prefer? And what about current brands?

Genuinely curious, because if I know what you prefer it’s easier to understand critiques.
The pique of my interest has to have been the Attitude era in WWF/E and nWo in WCW.
 

hammer

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Curious after seeing mostly complaints in the thread, what era of wrestling do y’all prefer? And what about current brands?

Genuinely curious, because if I know what you prefer it’s easier to understand critiques.
if i had to pick a current product its new japan, but i have no doubts ill do plenty of bitching on monday about ibushi and naito.

i can find the good and bad in all eras of wrestling. nothing is perfect. flipping around for no reason has ran its course for me, and thats 3/4ers of the aew roster. but will ospreay is one of my favorite wrestlers on the planet. im a complicated person.

enjoy what you like. fuck the rest of us.
 

hammer

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and in terms of historical fandom, the peak for me was 97-99 ecw. but i recently tried a chronological rewatch of all their ppvs and i made it through a ppv and a half. 12 year old me and 34 year old me like significantly different things in wrestling.
 

hammer

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looking back at this thread now that im home from work... i dont feel like ive been unfair to anything, and might even be a little biased towards them. the only things i universally eviscerated was the stadium stampede, and the jericho/orange cassidy feud, and i dont see how anyone can justify either of those things, no matter how big a fan of aew you are. but hell, even moxley im giving a fair shake to, even though hes had the same exact match every single time out since he left vince. even the young bucks, i named my tag team of the year because of their matches with omega/page and ftr. i dont know how much fairer i need to get.
 

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I mean, I prefer late 80s-mid 90s All Japan, personally. I'm pretty sure that's easy to tell by...pretty much everything I say about wrestling, though.
 

jussSAYIN

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I was just curious since AEW is the closest thing we have to WCW at it’s peak, but they’ve also learned from WCW’s well documented mistakes.

I too, get annoyed by the high flying stuff that just is telegraphed and overly choreographed. Which is most of the over the top rope dives, but they have plenty that seem legit.

But I saw a criticism in here that I’ve also seen on a podcast I enjoy. They talk about how wrestling companies bring in new guys just to lose to the top stars immediately. However that same podcast praises that this was how everything was typically booked in wrestling’s hottest era. Hell, Jericho’s WWF debut is always up there, if not listed as the best debut ever.

He lost to the Rock and then went down to IC champ and built back up. Have to assume Cage will go through the same if he improves, that Brodie would’ve done the same, etc.

To me, AEW has been great about the timing of title changes. Someone mentioned FTR being fed to the Bucks. Of course that match was going to happen. They’re the perfect opponents for the Bucks, and vice versa. I’d bet money that FTR takes the belts back from them, too.

No show is free of criticism. Just, I can’t even watch main roster WWE now. At best, each show has 2 stories that are interesting, if lucky. NXT and AEW were close to me, but NXT has had a down year.
 

hammer

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not to skip over everything else you say, but... christ i missed on brian cage badly. ricky starks is the star of that group, theres a guy who gets it. cage is huge and does pretty moves, but the little things in wrestling go way over his head.
 

hammer

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ill get into the dynamics of why i dont care for aews booking and rebuilding of guys... but realistically, it would all revolve around them gaining new fans. and since we know their audience is the same audience they brought with them when they started, you dont really need to present any of these guys as top guys with an 8 minute squash, since everybody knows who they are anyway. that said... lets say i didnt know who brian cage was. he came in, won a clusterfuck ladder match to be the number 1 contender, and in his first singles match in the company, he loses by submission to moxley. i have to assume jericho won a couple matches before he lost to rocky, but ill admit i dont remember, because of 15 years of drugs and alcohol. an eventual submission loss to moxley wouldnt have been a problem for me, but establish cage as a killing machine before you feed him to moxley. not... hey, heres a guy you know from the indies, and now hes gonna lose to our champ! also, theres a slight charisma difference between jericho and cage, in terms of rebuilding your brand afterwards.

brodie lee absolutely was coming in to his own before tragedy, but how? a 3 minute squash of an established name to win the belt. a couple defenses. then the rematch was a bloody dog collar grudge match. at least theres some semblance of establishment, and then payoff, with that. and even the dog collar stipulation was... random at best. but that was definitely a successful attempt at getting somebody outside of the evps over.

now theyre trying to re-establish archer. but him having competitive matches with butcher and blade means nothing to me, because butcher and blade have been established as an undercard fodder tag team. theyre trying to make me re-care about rusev/miro, but theyve had 2 years to make me care about best friends, and aside from one backlot brawl, nothing theyve done ever has been presented as relevant. have rusev kick chuck taylor in the face, win in 2 minutes, and off to the races he goes. not a 2 month long feud with undercard guys. wrestling still has a perceived hierarchy, even with being able to know everything about all of them at the click of a button. ive been screaming this for a year, and im sure ill continue for another year... an 8 minute competitive squash is the most valuable thing in a world where everyone has to go 20+ minutes. archer squashes sutter in 5 minutes. archer beats blade in 8 minutes because of the size. then has the competitive 15 minute hardcore/deathmatch match with kingston, which he wins. boom, the start of establishment.

and if this is strictly a wwe vs aew argument... ive openly said a thousand times, i dont have a dog in the fight, id love if all 930 hours of wrestling during the week were watchable. sure, aew is probably the tidiest 2 hour package of the bunch. raw is completely unwatchable, smackdown is still smackdown, and weekly nxt is bland. that doesnt make aew good by proxy, it just makes it the least lumpiest pile of shit, with the occasional winning moment. this week excluded, because the brodie lee show was the best weekly show of the year from any company.
 

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i have to assume jericho won a couple matches before he lost to rocky, but ill admit i dont remember, because of 15 years of drugs and alcohol.
Jericho had one match with Rock in October on Raw, which was 2 months after his debut, where it was a backdrop to the Vince/Stephanie/Davey Boy/Russo left so we need time to figure out the Stephanie stuff, and his managership with Curtis Hughes. He got his first win over Rock on the 4/20/00 Smackdown, likely with MHE involvement. They didn't really feud at all until the end of the Invasion angle and the infighting within the 'WWF ranks'.

Jericho came in, cut the promo on Rock, and was immediately shunted down to facing Road Dogg, X-Pac and Ken Shamrock (before he bailed.)
 

hammer

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Jericho had one match with Rock in October on Raw, which was 2 months after his debut, where it was a backdrop to the Vince/Stephanie/Davey Boy/Russo left so we need time to figure out the Stephanie stuff, and his managership with Curtis Hughes. He got his first win over Rock on the 4/20/00 Smackdown, likely with MHE involvement. They didn't really feud at all until the end of the Invasion angle and the infighting within the 'WWF ranks'.

Jericho came in, cut the promo on Rock, and was immediately shunted down to facing Road Dogg, X-Pac and Ken Shamrock (before he bailed.)
i meant matches in general, not matches vs rock. i was under the assumption he didnt just have that promo vs rocky in his debut, and then immediately lose to rocky... he probably won a couple matches before that match with rock 2 months down the road.
 

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i meant matches in general, not matches vs rock. i was under the assumption he didnt just have that promo vs rocky in his debut, and then immediately lose to rocky... he probably won a couple matches before that match with rock 2 months down the road.
8/24: Loss Road Dogg, DQ.
8/31: Draw X-Pac
9/13: Comedy segment to set up Shamrock match at Unforgiven
9/21: Win Billy Gunn
9/26: Loss X-Pac, DQ (PPV Debut)
9/27: Loss Big Show, DQ
9/28: Draw Road Dogg
10/2: Win Road Dogg (UK Only PPV)

So technically, one TV win before he lost to Rock against a non-jobber.
 

hammer

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8/24: Loss Road Dogg, DQ.
8/31: Draw X-Pac
9/13: Comedy segment to set up Shamrock match at Unforgiven
9/21: Win Billy Gunn
9/26: Loss X-Pac, DQ (PPV Debut)
9/27: Loss Big Show, DQ
9/28: Draw Road Dogg
10/2: Win Road Dogg (UK Only PPV)
oof.
 

hammer

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so fuck it, bury everyone and then build them back up. i guess im wrong trying to keep people strong.
 

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And that's WITH Russo (the person who pushed for him to be signed) booking. The Chyna feud started shortly after that, over the IC title, but that drew the ire of one Paul Levesque because he injured Chyna in their first match together, iirc.
 

jussSAYIN

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so fuck it, bury everyone and then build them back up. i guess im wrong trying to keep people strong.
Basically people go on runs, kind of like sports teams. Upside is, there's natural built in ways in which to give wrestlers time off and a bit more fresh. It's basically key to Jericho's success, if you think about it. His last like, 10 years in WWE, everything was a series of runs and then time away. Granted his charisma and how much he changes was big.

Also, I do not recall how Jericho got DQed, but I believe he did a double powerbomb to Road Dogg through a table and stood tall in the end in his first match.

Who knows what Brodie would've done with the TNT title... but I have a feeling the big one belt would've been his not far down the line.
 

HollywoodLeo

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What happened with Brodie was tragic and is definitely more important than some wrestling storyline, but it still seems off watching the Dark Order abruptly go from creepy cult heels to goofball babyfaces.

One week they demand you to join because it’s what’s best for you and they’ll make your life Hell otherwise, the next week they want you to join because they like your hair and you’re gee willickers so cool.

kinda feel like it may have been better to do the tribute show then keep them off TV for a bit, then either return heralding the coming of a new chosen one or just drop it entirely
 

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Paul Wight is a name, but is he really going to bring much on commentary? I guess he's wrestling too, he's an automatic face because he's the biggest name they have, and would do what, slow down a Brian Cage match... or do goofy comedy with Luchasaurus
 
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